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    What happened to Freedom of speech?

    created by claire389008 3321 days 18 hours 41 minutes ago

    Category: Politics

    Re: What happened to Freedom of speech?

    Well i am glad that you read the bible but i find some of your post on scripture pretty biased. Anyone can go through the bible and pick and choose scripture to make their point. However, i love how every one of your passages except for maybe one or two i do not remember. My god is a god of grace. That is what the new testament is for. God yes, is the same yesterday today and tomorrow, but he also has his son who came as the ultimate judge. He is a judge of graces however. I am burdened for you that you think all christians have something against homosexuality. I am a christian and i have many friends that are homosexual. I love them just they way Jesus would love them. They respect my ideas just as much as i respect theirs. However, sin is sin, and wether or not its sexual immorality, which is not just homosexuality, or denying the holy spirit, i think that all sin is equal. To think that homosexuality is under a different grace category is crazy. It is not the non-belivers who messed it up, but the believers. Christianity is a simple thing but man messed it up. However us as humans find it hard to accept the fact that Christianity like it or not is not fact based. It has some historical references and significance but it is left to the reader to rely on faith. Sad to say, but people try all their life to just stump faith and rely just on facts. However, how do you explain evolution when they found two different skulls in the same time period?...... How to measure Darkness?... it is the absence of light....We measure cold by the absence of heat.... so to say that god created evil is wrong.....People who are without God's love do evil things because the love and grace of God is not present in their lives. I am sorry that you are so cut and dry and the sad thing is Christianity is not. I find it funny that you say most Christians are born into a family of christians. I am not.... my dad converted after he had me when i was a teenager. And, no, if you have not heard the word of God, you will not go to hell. The bible says that God is present in his creation. I love you so much to tell you that i respect everything you say, but i have to agree with you that christians have messed things up.

    Re: What happened to Freedom of speech?

    Well i am glad that you read the bible but i find some of your post on scripture pretty biased. Anyone can go through the bible and pick and choose scripture to make their point. However, i love how every one of your passages except for maybe one or two i do not remember. My god is a god of grace. That is what the new testament is for. God yes, is the same yesterday today and tomorrow, but he also has his son who came as the ultimate judge. He is a judge of graces however. I am burdened for you that you think all christians have something against homosexuality. I am a christian and i have many friends that are homosexual. I love them just they way Jesus would love them. They respect my ideas just as much as i respect theirs. However, sin is sin, and wether or not its sexual immorality, which is not just homosexuality, or denying the holy spirit, i think that all sin is equal. To think that homosexuality is under a different grace category is crazy. It is not the non-belivers who messed it up, but the believers. Christianity is a simple thing but man messed it up. However us as humans find it hard to accept the fact that Christianity like it or not is not fact based. It has some historical references and significance but it is left to the reader to rely on faith. Sad to say, but people try all their life to just stump faith and rely just on facts. However, how do you explain evolution when they found two different skulls in the same time period?...... How to measure Darkness?... it is the absence of light....We measure cold by the absence of heat.... so to say that god created evil is wrong.....People who are without God's love do evil things because the love and grace of God is not present in their lives. I am sorry that you are so cut and dry and the sad thing is Christianity is not. I find it funny that you say most Christians are born into a family of christians. I am not.... my dad converted after he had me when i was a teenager. And, no, if you have not heard the word of God, you will not go to hell. The bible says that God is present in his creation. I love you so much to tell you that i respect everything you say, but i have to agree with you that christians have messed things up.

    Re: What happened to Freedom of speech?

    Howayeck,

    Elsewhere on the boards I have provided notes from an essay I am preparing dealing with homosexuality in the Bible. I do not believe that Scripture explicitly calls homosexuality a sin. Indeed, it would be in the best interest of the Christian faith to revise their interpretations and mistranslations so as to remain viable. Homosexuality is biologically determined, and it would make absolutely no sense for God to make gay people and then condemn them for their homosexuality.

    I can anticipate the counter arguments to this, as I have heard them many times. They usually go along the lines of, "being gay isn't a sin, it's homosexual behavior that is a sin." This still is not a valid argument because you have to consider the alternatives: Forced heterosexuality, or celibacy.

    Neither of these two options are particularly viable/responsible. Forced heterosexuality is unfair to the straight member of the relationship. Furthermore, because a homosexual person is incapable of maintaining a functional relationship with someone of the opposite sex (it's a matter of brain wiring), any children that come from such a relationship will be raised in a less-than-ideal family culture. On top of this, the homosexual participant in such a relationship will not be finding the emotional fulfillment that the vast majority of people need to live a wholesome life.

    This is the same problem with celibacy. Does it work for some people? Yes. Most people, however, require a sexual and emotional relationship for their mental health. We are primates. That's how it works. Denying oneself the happiness of a relationship (there are no substantial qualitative differences between heterosexual and homosexual couples; one difference is that homosexual men are higher functioning in relationship conflicts (Gottman)). A 2001 Georgia State study on involuntary celibacy (involuntary being undesired) identified a correlation between sexless lifestyles and mood/social disorders.

    Both celibacy and forced heterosexuality have negative consequences for all parties involved, and for society on the whole. On the other hand, there IS a correlation between satisfaction with one's personal life and their level of charitable/philanthropic behavior. I do not think that it would be a particularly intelligent move on God's part to make gay people, and then make it a sin to engage in homosexual behavior when he abstinent alternatives are so damaging.

    Re: What happened to Freedom of speech?

    Also,

    To quote my least favorite man in the Universe:

    "Either the word is sufficient, or it is not"
    ~Fred Phelps

    It does not matter if I cherry pick the nasty verses, they are still in there and they are still to be considered a part of the Christian metric for morality. I'm curious to know why more people don't take Leviticus 20:13 to heart. Aren't you defying the word of God when you do not stone homosexuals to death? Or did Jesus die so that you wouldn't have to do that, but it is still an offense to God to be what he created you to be?

    I find the word "sin" offensive. You should know that it is the vocalization of such beliefs that perpetuates the social stigmatization of homosexuality and, in turn, causes such a high rate of suicide attempts among LGBT youth? Even if you are one of those who are supportive of gay people, the nuances of your beliefs, when put into words, still have damaging effect.

    Finally, it is a hasty generalization for you to assess my opinion of "all Christians." I know that there are many decent Christians; I am friends with several of them. That said, I do find Fundamentalism to be morally bankrupt, and I do not have a great deal of respect for Bible literalism. I respect the right of the individual have their own opinion of the matter; I am not required to respect the person. I strongly believe that discrimination against, or judgment of, homosexual people requires a moral defect.

    Re: What happened to Freedom of speech?

    incomposmentis

    As I have stated before, I AM GAY. I like the same-sex. If God made me this way, it is for a reason. I am made this way, because I am strong. Every person who is made this is way, is strong with God behind them.

    I understand your idea of celibacy, but the thing is all the homosexuals, murders, liars, adulterers, and thieves can go on sinning. Your fate is already sealed the first time you take a breath. All people have done something wrong. All people deserve to go to hell. There is no completely righteous man that has lived on the earth besides God himself. We all deserve hell for the sin we have committed against God. I am not pointing out especially homosexuals. I would not even go so far as to say they need to change their lifestyle.

    What I would say is this, God loved you enough to become lowly and human. He was crucified for our sins. What does this mean? It means that he died in place of us. He was damned in place of us. All we have to do is hear and believe the word of the Lord, and you can accept the gift of God. You don't have to go to hell. You don't have to live alone in this life. You don't have to go on living in this world with only a biological purpose to have sex. Life is more than sex. Life is more than parties. Life is more than helping your fellow man. Life is being loved, and showing that love that God has shown to you. That is true life. You can be a homosexual and a christian. God does say it is a sin, but that is something that you an God will have to work out together. He is willing to work with you. There is nothing you can do in this life to make up for the wrong you have done. You cannot make up for lying. Once it is done. It is done. You cannot make up for taking God's name in vain. You cannot make up for hating a brother or a neighbor. You cannot make up for stealing. There is nothing you can do to save yourself.

    You can be sorry. You can ask for forgiveness, but you will not feel forgiven until you have gotten to know the Lord and savior of the universe.

    Incomposmentis

    There are not nasty verses in the bible. I know you picked out some that are about God's righteousness, but that is good. It is right that people get punished for what they did. God does not just forgive people. He can't forgive you for what you have done. He would not be a good God if he did. He can take the punishment for you. He has taken that punishment.

    Re: What happened to Freedom of speech?

    You said earlier it would be better for people not to hear the gospel. I would say not. You have chosen to go against the God of the universe. You can't expect that it doesn't have any consequences. The people that have not heard the word of the Lord have not made the choice.

    God is awesome because he gives all humanity a choice to acknowledge him or deny him. He loves you enough not to make you follow him. He wants people to choose him. He does not want mindless robots to do as he asks. This is why he sent is son to lay out the choice for all peoples. Choose life or death.
    Even before christ came, people had a choice.

    det. 30:19
    I call heaven and earth to witness against you today, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and curse. Therefore choose life, that you and your offspring may live.

    This is the choice it is not made final until you are dead.

    Re: What happened to Freedom of speech?

    I would love to answer you "faith shaking" questions incomposmentis.

    Oh but before I do, you have not laid out enough evidence for me to see macro-evolution as a truth. You may not think I have enough evidence, but I would say that I have not seen enough of your evidence to convince me otherwise. It is a faith-based argument. You have faith that macro-evolution works. I don't.

    1. God cannot create a stone too heavy for him to lift because God cannot break his own rules. For God anything is possible before he does something. Once he does something, it would make him fallible to do the opposite or to make something that he can't do.

    2. Free will and an omniscient God. God has the power to be in our lives and not. If God is not in your life, then his omniscience has nothing to do with you. If you are in his will, God will know all the possible outcomes of your decisions. This is how he is all knowing. The exact outcome is already chosen. For God it is easy to see the effect or your choices. He lets you make them. He does warn you from time to time the affect of your choices, but he does not make you choose a certain choice over another. You do that all on your own. That is how we are able to disobey God. If he made us choose what we do, we could not disobey him because that would go against his will. "A kingdom divided against itself will fall." a quote from god himself while talking to the pharisees.

    I guess 2 and 3 are kinda answered all in that last paragraph. You have a divine will from God, but you can stray from it by choosing to disobey God. God's will is the best possible choice for you, because he has your best interests in mind. Even though he has the best possible life for you planned out. You can still choose to live a life opposite of that.

    Re: What happened to Freedom of speech?

    4. I interpret a passage literally if it is not prophecy. Prophecy is very tricky. Sometimes it is literal, and sometimes it is an allegory and should be read metaphorically. Usually when it is about statues, or some vague object, I will read the passage metaphorically. If it seems to be mimicking life, I will read it literally, but I will say that I might be wrong on it.

    5. marriage is sanctioned by God. Christians do divorce more than non-christians. That does not mean it is right. I have said before there are few true christians. A true christian will only divorce if there is adultery in the mix, and only if they cannot reconcile after this adultery has happened.

    It goes to show you that christians are no better than anyone else. I am no better than you. If anything I am worse, because I know how I must live and I fail all the time. At that point I live in the grace of God, and I continually try to act better. I will fail until I am out of this world and into my father's arms.

    I think I did a good job of helping you understand why God would "create homosexuals" although I do not think he did. I stand by the fact that we has humans made homosexuality up. As we grow more contempt for our creator, we will be given over to the sins of this world. As we commit more idolatry, our culture will turn to homosexual behavior, because as Paul says in Romans. We are given over to these desires.

    This goes back to point that God did not make sin. Humans made sin. Sin is just the absence of God's will.

    Re: What happened to Freedom of speech?

    Follow your beliefs that's my opinion because no one can take that away from you. I'm a strong Christian believer when many of my classmates are atheiest and I continue to hold my beliefs strong.

    Re: What happened to Freedom of speech?

    I know! You talk about being a Christian and giving a view from that angle and everyone goes psycho on you! We are just being tested and Satan is trying to win and turn everyone away from God. It won't work, but he is trying!

    Re: What happened to Freedom of speech?

    Claire, you're one of the most zealous and intensely determined I've seen since the 70's ... when I sounded a lot like you do now. I'm kind of torn about it. Part of me is glad that not all the fire has turned to sludge in the evangelical world - the other part wishes there was some way to communicate the fact that your reasoning, reasons, knowledge, and other Gnostic thinking patterns are a product of culture ... not of religion. In other words, the view you have is your own individual view - not that of the historic church. But your training has told you that you can use the Bible like that. I wish I could throw you a lifeline. Like I said, I used to sound a lot like you.

    And to everyone else reading this thread, I'd like you to know that not every person who'd name themselves "Christian":
    -- believes that the account in Genesis is a narrative of seven 24-hour days
    -- worships a God who communicates primarily or first or only through a book
    -- discounts the findings of science as anti-religious

    Just thought I'd say that.

    Re: What happened to Freedom of speech?

    Well I am real religious. I dont like the idea they wont to take In God we trust of of the money. Every thing is way to political correct now. Come on just Let your yes be yes and your no be no.

    Re: What happened to Freedom of speech?

    Minerva,
    I don't know wether to take that as a compliment or something else.
    I want you to know that I believe there are very few christians. People may call themselves christians, but you can tell a christian when you see one. They have christ within them.

    I know the historic church is not behind me. I am not behind the historic church. The bible is what I hold true. It is true for many reasons. God is my savior, lover, and friend.

    I would not say I am zealous, but I would love to know what you mean by that.

    Re: What happened to Freedom of speech?

    I think "freedom of speech" does not really exist because the restrictions basically cancel the "freedom" part.I unerstand what claire389008 was saying about feeling bashed but that deals with separation of church and state more than freedom of speech.

    The best example of "freedom of speech" being biased was the situatio at the VMAs this year.Kanye West stated his opinion by saying he thouht beyonce had one of the best videos ever. He did not go about doing so in the right manner.He was ridiculed by nearly every radio and television station for his actions.Many celebrities including the president were allowed to say whatever they thought about him without anyone saying maing opinions about it.Pink said "Kanye West is an ass and deserves to get the s**t kicked out of him" without being shunned for her opnion.Even after apologizing he was talked about negatively and Jay Leno took it as far as asking "what do you think your mother would think if she was here?". Is it not to far whn a man's dead mother is being brought into the picture?

    The first amendment needs be used the way it was originally written to be used. There is no where in constitution where anyone's personal is banned otherwise jails would be filled with people who use racial slurs and thing along those lines.

    Re: What happened to Freedom of speech?

    Samuel: Kanye's freedom of speech has in no way been infringed or restricted by his asinine behavior a few weeks ago.
    We let people more or less say what they want, but just because you get to say what you want does not mean you are simultaneously protected from ridicule or judgment. Free Speech means the government is not going to come after you for saying what you want to say, not that ordinary people are not allowed to make fun of you.

    True freedom of speech does not exist, however. We have plenty of laws that punish people who say certain things, effectively limiting what people can say. Slander and Libel laws are the mist shining examples of our government trying to limit what is and is not said.

    It is against the law to yell "FIRE" in a crowded theater. Technically under Free Speech in its truest form, you should be allowed to, but in this country you will be persecuted for doing so. You can also be persecuted for telling someone you are going to harm them and for making bomb threats. Technically both of these things should be protected under free speech, but our government infringes on our rights here as well. I am not saying these infringements are bad, i am just pointing them out.