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I will not vote Obama for a second term. I feel that he was only elected in the first place for his skin color. His policies discriminate against the rich, and seem to punish those that make money. The entire income tax system needs to be re-evaluated, as our founding fathers never even intended for an income tax system to be put in place. It is not fair that someone who makes more money should get taxed more. It is like punishing them for being successful. While I understand that not everyone can make an extreme amount of money, the same percentage of your income should be taken for taxes, regardless of your tax bracket.

Obama Obama Obama Obama!! lol i wish i had something really intelligent to say about our country's politics, unfortunately i don't :(
I'm still doing my research on this things, i recently turned 18, so i'm voting this year!!!

From what i've heard it's either you dislike him or you like him.

Why i liked him, because he's black, (OMGOSH did she just say that?!! lol lol yes i did)
give me a moment to redeem myself, when he ran for office i was about 14 years old, and i remember my dad just being sooo happy that the man was black, so i was happy that he was black as well lol

Don't worry i don't intend on voting for anyone based on skin color, or sex. It's about what they are bringing to the table. At the moment i'm leaning towards Romney, it may change.

i disagree with @ben I don't think he won based on his skin color, but i do think it may have played a part.
I plan on being that 1% that is stupidly rich :) so if i was, i would NOT want to have to pay extra taxes, that is unfair. I'm not sure what it is called, but at he end of the year, my parents end up paying extra, i'm not sure if it's taxes, but it's due to them making more than usual, i'll get the specifics of that, and post again on this topic.

Anyway, i feel that our young generation does not know a lot about what is going on in our country, I blame academia!

I also think Obama is trying, give the man some credit! he has the best intentions for our country, but he may not be going about it in a way that everyone approves of. :)

Obama Obama Obama lol I love his name! :)
Great Forum.

Since posting this, I've spent a couple hours researching about Obama as well as his potential presidential competitors. Now, I'm not saying I'm suddenly a political wiz, because I'm still definitely far from it, but I have learned a little more on the topic and formed more of my own opinion.

I don't know the full facts but I think I do agree with most of what I've heard around here. I feel like I need to continue to research Obama's policies and how they affect our economy and our people instead of watching him speak or listen to what he has to say, because he is a really good speaker and can make any policy or proposal sound positive, and that's dangerous for people like me (who are young, have never voted before, haven't felt the burden of heavier taxes, or don't know much about politics). Most of what I've read does say that it's true that he is putting more financial weight on the richer people.

Does anyone have any idea if Obama is doing anything about school costs? Posotively/negatively? I'll have to go research this now, too.
I know that in California, the cal-state schools are waitlisting all applicants if a law to raise taxes doesn't pass because they want higher taxes to make more money for the schools. This will probably end up happening, because who's going to vote for higher taxes?!

Schools are getting harder and harder to get into, I'm glad I got in this year, just made the cut *phew*

@Ben- I agree against the tax brackets. I think the idea is good, but they're too extreme and take too much back from people who usually have worked hard to earn it, while people who are without a job bumming it around doing nothing don't owe anything to our government.

@Skywordsee- I completely agree that young generations don't know what's going on and that we should learn these things in school. But then there's the argument about if your teacher is for one party/candidate and while he teaches you he convinces you to vote for that person only because that's all you've been taught and all you know, so maybe it is better that we teach ourselves things like this.

It's just so hard because the media twists everything to make it sound however they want it to

I've seen him speak before he became president and after. Both times, he seemed like a great guy but when he was president he commanded respect. He's a very respectable man, and I came super close to hugging Michelle at this luncheon event that I went to in Detroit. I think they are very good people and they are in the position of power that they are in for a good reason.

There aren't many candidates for this presidential election that I can take seriously as of now so I will vote for him. He stands for plenty of things in my opinion, and he is my hero. I haven't had time to be all about politics, so I not debating on anything. He is still a great president to me, and a lot of the things people expect him to do so instantly don't really understand that "Change" takes time.

Also, I remember hearing that Obama is trying to decrease the cost of attendance for universities. He's actually come to UofM recently and spoke.

Really??... the guys one of the worst president in recent history. Forget his race, religion, and rhetoric. He has done almost nothing to solve the debt crisis, passed a constitutionally unprecedented universal healthcare plan, expanded our war machine around the world,...

And the stimulus and bailouts!!! RRRR!!!! It is not the role of the government to play favorites in the economy and throw money at problem the government cannot solve.... We need a free market economy. Government bailouts, regulations, waste prevent that...

I will be voting for him. Sadly some people still can't believe that there's a black man standing to make a difference as a President. He's doing great by far as I know. People don't realize that before Obama came on to become a president there was already problems with the economy. He's trying and making an effort. Yes indeed a lot of things are not accomplished but it takes time. You just don't step on the platter and make things happen without thinking and making decisions. He has done many things compared to what Bush did. I watched as Bush stood in a classroom while being told that 911 attack was on the move and what did he do? NOTHING but continue to stand and talk in the classroom. It's not about the skin color but it's about what this man is doing that many are failing to realize. You don't have to vote for him but the one thing that is so annoying is when people sit and talk about who is standing as a President when very well you didn't take that step to even go and vote. I just hope that by the time I graduate from college, I will get a job and that universities will decrease so that many children will be able to afford and at least make a difference in their lives instead of hanging on the streets. Great Forum!!! I love how I was able to express myself. :)

I will not vote for Obama, but depending on the Republican-elect, I may not vote for "the right side". Here's the deal:

- As of now, the government as a whole is attempting to function by printing out money to spend when they are already 14 Trillion dollars. One of their top concerns should be lowering that debt, but not by printing more money to spend. That lowers the value of the dollar.

- Forget about wars and what other countries do. We can't completely ignore other countries, but we waste time and money that we don't have worrying about others when we need to worry about themselves. I give credit to Obama for at least bringing troops home. The one thing that he's done right.

- Onto what he's done wrong, he took out 1 trillion dollar debt from Bush and past Presidents and doubled in in year one, and it was all downhill from there. Obama, you are worse than the Republicans. People complain that Bush spent too much, when Obama voluntarily bailed out failing banks instead of letting the little guys fall out as they couldn't support themselves, he created Cash for Clunkers, which was alright, but still a weak effort, bailed out General Motors and Chrysler (which can be justifiable, we don't need our automotive market crumbling, plus they all paid back in full), AND had the nerve to pump money into our economy, which went to waste.

- Last thing, he puts government into private business which is a no-no. You cannot let the federal government control the market for, 1. They can't even control themselves, what makes anyone think they can control our country's economy?, and 2. You can't have a free market to work in and trade when there are laws to funnel money only one certain way, and that's not how our market works. If the freedom is not there, it fails, plain and simple.

Manor- that's so cool that you've had such close experiences with our president and the first lady. I'm sure its at least a slightly life Manor- that's so cool that you've had such close experiences with our president and the first lady. I'm sure its at least a slightly life changing event. It's also really good that he's trying to lower school costs.

Westfounder- I agree its frustrating that he has spent so much of our money but he brought troops home right? How has he expanded our war machine?

Poetic- many people blame Obama as the sole problem of our economy when in reality he didn't completely cause our economy to become worse, it was headed that way and he's faced many challenges and received criticism for every decision, even when making decisions that would help our economy.

Thundervike- I agree with you, especially how we need to worry about ourselves and our huge debt before other things.

Obama has made some good decisions and his intentions must be good with what he believes is right, but he's there are definitely improvements and better

I don't know a lot about politics myself, but from what I have heard and been educated on, he has done nothing beneficial for the U.S.
He has no communication skills, and if he is not reading from a teleprompter he seems to be unable to keep his thoughts organized. Half the time I think he is pulling information out of thin air.
As far as gas prices go, he refuses to take oil from the U.S. when we have plenty here. He speaks about making the ecomomy better, but he wants to raise the prices of gas to an unaffordable amount..and he wants to force people to buy health insurance? Good thing that got shot down because not everyone can afford to buy it.
I also beleive that Obama is trying to make it easier for immigrants to become a citizen because he wants their reelection votes. And is it just me, or have hate crimes been rising again? I think Obama is trying to manipulate the black population into voting for him again by creating hostile environments.
Like I said, I do not know a large amount about politics (only what my father informs me about and what I hear on the talk shows he listens to), but I think it would be a mistake to reelect Obama.

I realize that a lot of what I have said may be manipulated into racist views, but I want to make it clear to everyone that I am not racist, this is just what I believe.

Us..the people who should be most important excuse my video. We won't be equal but I feel we should help those who are lower this us since we are making so much. Shouldn't it be a good to help others? Besides that, be educated about what the President has done to help us and what he's trying to do/has done. The troops are back be happy!! Get over yourselves.

@loveashlynne... He has only brought the troops home from Iraq, not all the other 100+ countries we have troops in. He expanded it by supporting the rebels in Libya with firing literally hundreds of missiles into Benghazi. He commited about 100 troops to Uganda to advise rebels against Joseph Kony back in 2011... Both actions were undeclared acts of war against those nations and thus unconstitutional.... And now everyone is talking about military action against Iran. That is something we cannot afford and would be morally unacceptable given the lack of evidence for nuclear weapons

*sigh* I hate to sound so arrogant, but I think I can shed some light on this subject. I say that because there are some hardcore false claims being made here, and I keep up with politics and foreign policy every single day.

First, I'll start by saying that I have many issues with Obama. If I could meet him and give him criticisms to his face, we'd be talking for a while. That being said, I also know to give credit where credit it due. Furthermore, if you vote for the Republican nominee this year, any economist with a PhD will tell you that you've just bankrupted the country. Congrats.

Okay. First, I think we should all take a look at this site:

whatthefuckhasobamadonesofar.com

Just click through a good twenty of those, and maybe you'll start to have some realizations.

Okay, not for the personal shoutouts.

Ben - You've got it all wrong, dude. Like...I'm not even sure I could guess where you're getting this information. Sure, he got a lot of support because he was black, but the fact that he was black simply added to his platform that was built on supporting the lower and middle class. The majority of African Americans in this country are lower-middle and lower class - of course they're going to vote for the guy who advocates their needs and NOT the guy who advocates tax breaks for the rich, which would sink them lower into poverty.

"His policies discriminate against the rich, and seem to punish those that make money. " I think if you knew how badly the rich were favored in this country, you wouldn't have said that. Besides, which is right, discriminating against the rich to provide for the poor or discriminating against the poor (a population that is MUCH larger) to provide for the rich? Because in a capitalist system, you HAVE to choose one. In capitalism, there will always be people who come out with the short end of the stick, and Obama believes that giving the poor a break for the first time since Reagan is the right thing to do. HOWEVER, (this is where my first beef with him comes in), he extended the Bush tax cuts. So, if you're worried that he's taking from the rich, he's not. He's allowing them to keep money in their pockets while the bottom bracket gets hit HARD. So don't worry about any of that. You've got it all wrong.

Secondly, I see that you're in favor of a flat tax rate. I'm not going to get preachy on this, I'm simply going to ask that you take 30 minutes out of your day to read about flat tax rates and how virtually all economists agree that a flat tax would destroy the economy. I'll give you the short version:

Let's say you have a full-time student and a CEO of Wal-Mart. Their incomes are very, VERY different. Now, let's say there is a flat tax in place and that it will take $10,000 from each of them. For the CEO, that may simply mean he can't have another dinner in Paris with his wife. For the student, that could put him on the street. See what I mean? That's what a flat tax rate would do, but instead of one student, it'd put thousands of families out on the streets.

Sky and Ashlynne - Do you both really blame academia? Or should you be blaming yourselves? Honestly, just think about that. In my opinion, public school does a fantastic job with the right parenting. I got a SHIT ton out of public school because my parents raised me with the inexorable desire to be aware and intelligent. That approach combined with public school = current me listening to NPR and reading the news every single day.

Ashlynne - I think it's great that you're now wanting to understand politics. If you really are determined, I HIGHLY recommend listening to BCC world news on the radio and reading news from politico.com or CNN. Throw in some New York Times every once in a while, too. You'll pick things up fast. Now, I feel the obligation to respond to this: "I think the idea is good, but they're too extreme and take too much back from people who usually have worked hard to earn it, while people who are without a job bumming it around doing nothing don't owe anything to our government."

There are a few things that everyone needs to understand:
1. Once you have money (and the majority of people in wealth inherited their wealth, they didn't earn it), it's BEYOND easy to make money. Warren Buffett made $15 million dollars in 5 minutes in a deal with US Bank. He did it as a public message of how easy it is for the rich to get richer.

2. Once you're very wealthy, you basically control U.S. policy through your investments and financial actions.
3. There are many people who abuse the welfare system, but they are in the overwhelming minority. Most people on welfare don't do drugs and are holding down multiple jobs. So, yes, there are people "bumming around" but there are even more who are working two jobs to try and feed their children while their neighborhood becomes increasingly gentrified, threatening to make them move to new locations (which costs a lot).
4. Those people do owe the government. We all owe the government, and rightly so! I would be the FIRST person to volunteer paying higher taxes. My country needs it, I can afford it! And I make NO money! If only all the wealthy could say that.

Dman's got it right about the Republican candidates. Romney is going to get it and he will lose. Thank goodness plenty of people actually know how bad he would be for the country. He will lose, then in the next election, the GOP will go with an even more conservative candidate because they will think Romney was too moderate. However, they'll use a more conservative candidate in an increasingly progressive country. Romney getting the nomination is GREAT news for liberals and progressives.

Westfounder - You should really take a look at that site I posted earlier. It's funny you think he's the worst president ever. Historians across the globe have reliably put him in the top 10 ever since he was elected (yes, they actually have conferences about those kinds of things - I don't get it either). Also, don't you think it's worth considering that the free market economy has brought us into this recession? Can you point to a successful capitalist free market economy for me? I can't...well, you could point to China, but I would just tell you that they're state capitalists, which is very different (there's even some socialism thrown in there). Now can you point to a successful economy with lots of government regulations? I can. Germany, the economic power of the world = TONS of regulations. Sweden, Estonia, Luxembourg, Singapore, Denmark, Norway....all with a whole bunch of regulations. And I could go on. I'm actually not a socialist, but I'm well-read enough to know that free market capitalism fails...BADLY.

Anyway, hope everyone got something out of that wall o' text.

@PrincessFirefighter... first of all I never said he was the "worst president ever". I am well aware that that title is usually reserved for Buchanan, Harding, or Ulysses Grant. I said he was one of the worst in "recent history". That's my opinion and I was not too concerned about what historians agreed with me... but now i am curious... what historians place him in the "top 10"???, number one is usually always reserved for Washington, Lincoln or Kennedy. And further, what was there criteria for making their judgments??

In case you have not heard Europe is in a financial crisis right now... sure some countries are doing alright... but they are doing alright without as much economic freedom as we have (or might have). I value freedom over wealth. As Americans, I think we should all do the same...

I would point you to the Austrians and their economic school of thought.

I have seen that website before. Most of those things are either neutral (he appointed a Latino justice... AND?) or ideologically liberal in nature. So you should not be surprised that someone disagrees with you. I wouldn't say Obama have done nothing I can agree with. I certainly like that he reduced the embargo restrictions that affected Cuban-American families from visiting loved ones.

@Furbee- it's not just african american, it's every poor citizen as well as non-citizen. He is in fact trying to get illegal immigrants jobs and money because over 55% of our country is poor or an immigrant, legal or illegal, so if he continues to do everything for those people, he will get their votes and win reelection.
Our middle class is shrinking, and I don't think it will grow by helping the incredibly poor, but just make more people pretty poor and able to get by but barely. I think this is a bad thing.

@Westfounder- Thanks for the information, that makes sense. I guess I just never realized it because things like that aren't really covered in the media, or at least not that I ever see. We definitely need to worry about our own country and stop butting into every other country's business.

@Dest- I am definitely not judging our president based on his skin color. In fact, 4 years ago I wanted him to be President because he was black and I didn't even know anything about him. However, now I am judging from the inside, or as close as inside as I can get to a President, which is his policies and how his actions are affecting our country, which seem to be pretty bad to me :/

@Princess, I am not blaming academia. I first said that I wish we learned more about it in school, but then decided that it is better for me to just teach myself these things at home. Also, thanks for the insight and the website, it's a good one!

I'm not against Obama, as it may sound above, because I only mentioned the negative things about him which I believe is helping illegal immigrants and expanding our war forces, which I'm way against.
I know he's done many good things and he is a good President, I just don't know if I want to vote for him if he is going to continue these actions. I do believe that he's trying to lower the costs of schools though, which is definitely a good thing. Hmm, it's going to be a tough decision.

Of course I'm not surprised that someone disagrees with me, I'm just surprised that you believe in simple theories that have been proven to be faulty for years and years.

And I do apologize, Obama was ranked 14th best. I was reaching back to junior year when my teacher talked about this, he must have said top twenty, not top ten. And to answer your other question, these rankings come from historic scholars. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_rankings_of_Presidents_of_the_United_States

You say Europe as if you mean all of Europe...while there are plenty of flourishing countries in Europe. It's true that capitalism offers the most individual freedom, but you're looking at this from a very one-dimensional perspective. There is not only economic freedom. Capitalism, though it encourages individuals to make their way up the ladder, takes away people's degrees of opportunity. In order for there to be winners, there has to be losers. So, in a capitalist society, if you have the misfortune of being born in a poor neighborhood where the schools are being turned into charters and the locals businesses becoming slowly gentrified, then no, you do not have the same opportunities. That's hardly freedom. Besides, what is freedom if it is only given in full to the few? That is capitalism. That's the base philosophy of capitalism (not like we stay true to that anyway, what with corporate welfare and stuff). That is why more economically sophisticated countries than us utilize government to regulate the economy. It distributes freedoms so that there is a smaller imbalance of favoritism. There is less poverty, less crime, less unhappiness in general. The U.S. is a baby. We've been around for a tiny fraction of the time other countries have, and they've used that time to develop their systems. Sure, some countries like Greece and Italy are in a financial crisis right now, but that's due to inept management in power, not their basic economic system. Progress is inexorable and inevitable. Someday we will realize that we HAVE to switch to a single-payer health care system in order to save a shit ton of money and care for the increasingly poor (due to things like the Bush tax cuts and Citizens United).

“In my country we go to prison first and then become President.”
http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/n/nelson_mandela.html#dhHw5UYmVGSq1Asz.99

I am from South Africa and I just wanted to poke my head into this lively discussion! I am always impressed by people who can back their passionate beliefs with facts and evidence. This is something that I find challenging to do especially in the political sphere because I tend to be very driven by my emotional responses. I am amazed by the political climate here in the United States, especially by the electoral campaigns and the use of the media in attempting to bash the other candidates. I am not informed enough to comment on what President Obama has accomplished or not accomplished since he has been President, I do however have a very positive perception of him. Maybe I have attached certain moral values to what I think makes a good president. As president of South Africa, Nelson Mandela embodied the ideals of hope, forgiveness, justice and acceptance to a lot of people including myself. I feel that President Obama emulates these similar qualities and that is why I like him. I believe he inspires people and reminds us of our humanity. I understand that the President is also charged with running the country he or she has been elected to lead and that there are serious economic, political and social implications to his or her policies, but I just wanted to give a “big up” for President Obama from an outsider’s perspective.

During the 2008 election, I was not enamored with the Obama campaign. I felt a lot of it was fueled by hype and charges of false racism ("Oh of course you wouldn't vote for a BLACK man" type arguments). I ended up voting for McCain in the final election, but after Obama won the election I felt it was time to drop any antagonisms I had of him prior to his election and let his actions deem his merit.

Unfortunately, throughout his tenure so far, Obama has gone the way of a majority of politicians. His tendency to invert his stance on particular topics to appease certain groups has been very disappointing. His promise to close Guantanamo Bay has gone unfulfilled. His promise to bring troops out of Iraq went unheeded until troop withdrawal finally occurred, but this withdrawal was due to an agreement set in place by Bush. I felt his handling of the Occupy Movement could have been better, attempting to curb the violence on either side (police and protesters), and the recent Trayvon Martin case came across as political grandstanding rather than heartfelt empathy.

Obama brought a lot promise during his campaign to help improve the U.S. image to the world, attempting to bring down the idea that we represent the warmongering country in the world. However, during his first term, we have seen not only a continuance of the Afghanistan and Iraq war, we have seen military strikes in Sudan, Libya, Yemen and Pakistan, and those are just the ones we know about.

His promise to be "the most transparent presidency" has fallen by the wayside with closed-door meetings and secretive decisions. The U.S. handling of the press, case in point Yemeni journalist Abdulelah Haider Shaye, who was imprisoned in Yemen for "having ties to Al-Qaeda" after reporting that a military strike in Yemen was in fact committed by the United States, rather than the Yemeni government which claimed it. He pointed out that the ordinance used in the bombing did not match the armaments within the Yemeni arsenal, and the evidence pointed to a U.S. drone strike. After spending a year in Yemeni prison, he was pardoned by the government of Yemen, and was about to be released, when a call from Obama to the Yemeni president got him to reconsider releasing Shaye, and now Shaye sits in prison, eighteen months after his arrest, pardoned by the government, yet still incarcerated.