I know this is a difficult question, and with all things going on in my world and the whole world around us, i thought about this when i woke up this morning. this is not about a negative forum either. perhaps philosophical and I really didn't have an answer for it. we are entitled to opinions and we are thinkers..and i just don't have an answer...
but this question has me stumped.

sorry this forum isn't about a favourite candy but a question about life....

da bear

Hey felt friend-

I think judgment is something that has been engrained in us since we started living on God's Green Earth here. I'm sure it started as soon as humans did. Automatically, the thought process when you look at another human is to objectify their similarities, their differences, their appearance- all aspects- I don't think that "passing judgment" necessarily needs to include the negative connotation that it does, but unfortunately throughout the past of humans, when we have judged something poorly negative things come out of it. (i.e. slavery, holocaust, etc.)

I realize that I probably haven't made a point you hadn't realized on your own thus far, but that's really all judgment is right?

I was involved in conversation about this very subject yesterday. The subject of judgment was tied in with one's awareness of his/her judgments on another and a willingness to expand one's tolerance.

This has always intrigued me, greycloudbear. Having been judged harshly in my life on many occasions, I began to wonder on what basis were people accepting or rejecting me?

What I concluded, up to this point in my life, is that we all live in our own little bubbles of reality. Each bubble is like a fingerprint in that not another human being has experienced or will experience EXACTLY what we have gone through or will go through. In that bubble, we live our lives and the bubble is actually like a lens through which we look upon our surroundings. This lens is a filter that 'taints' and makes subjective all that we see, smell, touch, taste and hear. We judge everything around us, animate or inanimate.

Pretty tree. Lovely smell. Foul odor. Abrasive surface. Nice man. Mean man. Scary bug. Silly child. Stupid fool. Beautiful car. Snooty rich lady. Lowly laborer. And on and on...

Rarely do we gaze upon something with a benign mental emptiness, that place of being like a child where we have yet to taint our world and pre-determine our experiences with old-new things. If we were robots and were to base our decisions in our lives independent of our personal judgments, our paths would likely be vastly different than they are currently. I am learning to disavow others' judgments on me, because in reality, they are experiencing me not as me, but as a version of me that is distorted and analyzed (or summed up) based upon their personal criteria of who they are. It is kind of like everything outside of our selves is on the other side of an equals sign.

Perhaps now I am just ranting. Thanks for the thought-provoking topic, greycloudbear. I'm sure this one will continue use up some brain power today... :-)

I think that the judgment that we automatically pass on people is part of a natural process that is necessary to our survival. The reason we quickly (within the first few seconds) sum up every person, place, and thing, even before really know anything about it, is so that our minds can make a quick decision as to how to react.

When I consider thought processes like this, I consider them from the perspective of its use from primitive man. In the case of judgment, it seems to me that in most cases we do not know enough about a new person (or anything else) to objectively decide whether or not they are a positive or negative influence on the outcome of our lives. For this reason, we generalize and draw conclusions about certain obvious traits in order to piece together what we think a person is like.

The trouble with judgment is that it is often difficult to shake that initial bias when we eventually do find out more about a person, which is why we are taught that first impressions are so important.

I don't think it's anything to really feel bad about; we can't help it. It does get out of hand and become a negative thing when people gossip and influence the opinions of others before anyone has a chance to form their own evaluation of a new person.

Coming from another country, it is kinda nice to observe the different judgments in America than the judgments in South America. Besides the cultural judgments in both countries, there is one judgment very common and very hurtful and it is MONEY. Judgments passed onto others based on money are huge!!! but oh well it seems like it is human nature. I like ERINs answer because she pretty much defines why we do this and it is true. For me there are two types judgments, and they are: true and abstract judments. The true judgments are based on reason and facts and should be given some consideration. Although we are no ones to judge, previous judgments sometimes help to decide or be more prepare in life.

The problem are the ABSTRACT judgments. and these are the ones of how people perceive you without knowing you and pass it onto other. For example, if you did not feel like spending one day and your friend thought you were cheap for that reason and then tell all your friend that you are cheap, then that is a perception that someone had about you that was not true and pass it onto others. This is the one that should be stopped! Abstract judgments hurt even more because they are not true, they are based on perceptions, assumptions or stereotypes. This is my OWN theory, he he.

I think everybody should take a class about this because it helps to understand better the human nature and what type of judgments should not be done.

I just want to make a few points here -- because "judgments" and condemnations are not the same thing. To judge something is (as you all have been saying) part of being human, we ought to be darned glad we know how! There's a reason cows don't flinch when they see the wicked looking instruments being unloaded from the vet truck - and sometimes it might be easier not to make associations or remember or learn from experience, but it would indeed make us less human.

When I was younger, I perceived condemnation from:
--other people's opinions
--other people's curiosity
--other people's surprise
--other people's differences
--other people's condemnations

But then I grew up enough to be able to expand my vision a bit and sort of ... um ... trade perspectives, I guess. It feels like putting on someone else's glasses and then seeing what only a person with those glasses would be able to see. And so I began to expand my definition of myself and figure out why someone else might:
--have a different opinion
--be curious
--be surprised
--be different
--be condemning

If someone says, "that's nuts!" It's easy to hear:
--you're crazy
--you're stupid
--you're wrong

But "that's nuts!" can also be:
--you surprise me
--I admire you
--I am confused by you


Because of other people's judgments (in all their permutations), I have learned that I am not what I thought I was, and I am not what my parents think I am. (Did you think you'd be over that whole "what my parents think" by the time you're over 40? You won't be - at least, not all the way.) The growth and life experience since childhood also means newer and more evolved self-definitions.

So ... judgments are feedback. That's all they are. And if someone else flinches or hollers at me all of a sudden or whispers something I don't want to hear, I now know that there is a reason for it, and part of the reason might be that I've been missing data. It's not that the other guy is "right" or that I am "nuts." It's that we all see something different, and sometimes what the other person sees has more to it than we want to know about.

Many people pass judgement unknowingly.The presumed connotation of the act of passing judgement is negative.Freedom of speech can be considered as passing judgement.It is never considered taboo until an individual becomes offended.

Society has shaped individuals to act as they are told from childhood.It is a constant chain of thought.It happens during observation in every moment of life.Though a hard concept to swallow,judgement is a intrinsic tool for learning and discovering unknown thought.

You are being philosophical. Allow me to be historical for a moment.

I think we pass judgment on others due to human nature.
Example: cave men, or just surviving in general. You see another being, you pass judgment on whether they are 'safe' or not. You see if they are friendly or foes. You pass the wrong judgment, you may lose your life. Correct judgment, you live to fight another day.

We pass judgment for our own survival. We want to live. Maybe not just live, but to live well.
That is why we pass judgment--for others pass judgment on us as well. We want to be seen in a good light (or most people do, anyway).

I think we decide early on what is proper and acceptable.

I really try to not be judgemental, but it can be hard. Poor English and signs of a lack of education I have a particular problem with.

Once I was in Arkansas chatting with a couple while waiting to be seated at a restaurant and the wife made some kind of comment about sharing a glass with someone. She said she could not believe these people drank out of the same glass "what with AIDS being spread around and things". Now this is just ignorance, and I know I can't fix the world, but I just have a hard time listening to that type of statement. What kind of education must this woman have had to believe that you can get AIDS from sharing a cup?

And yes, YVO, money is a big one. I grew up in a wealthy area and remember the torture school kids had to endure if their parents shopped at K-Mart.

People are people and in America we are free to think and say what we want, so naturally there will always be someone to disagree and have a strong opinion, which often leads to judgement. As mentioned above, this is just human nature, and on many levels it is also our own insecurities. We can't change how we were brought up, and acceptance of others is a constant struggle for many people. Make sense?

WoW! what great responses...
Erin..thanks for the comments..I have missed you.

this forum was started for a nmber of reasons;
responses to a forum
the wife of my best friend..
how i have been treated here in czech republic..WITHOUT ever asking me what was going on, and why.

I think YVO has given a good reason for one part of passing judgment and that is money. money has never been my best friend, and I buy clearance every time I can. they aren't out of date, they still work, and i can make a nice wardrobe out of it. yes, i had to shop at k-mart, even worked there, when I was in need of a job. the pay was not great, but i had my judgment upon it. but it was only that.

how many times has a child been teased for where they go or where they are seen?

what about the person with depression? how is that person judged? i take a cocktail every night so i can sleep. the past has haunted me for years. does it make me a sick obsessed crazed person? no, it doesn't. i've just been down on my luck making some terrible decisions...and that stinks.

but on a brighter note...
two happy moments...for my birthday many years ago, must have been 13 or so, i got a pair of converse all stars, maroon high top...i was one of two who had maroon, and people thought they were cool. their way of passing judgment and acceptance.
and as i worked at an account with an autistic like employee, he would always say to me, you're cool like johnny depp...and this was long ago in the 90's..and i liked that. that was a great compliment to be compared to someone..that is how he judged me.

YVO..being from South America, and if you read this, and i dont know if you have been to buenos aires or not...what is the most driven car in the city? not some label made car, but a yellow taxi. and they were so proud of their cars. it amazed me.


and i also brought up a new thought to go with the original forum..
\
does passing judgment also connect with acceptance????

Well greycloud, I do not know about Buenos Aires, Argentina because I never have been there, but I can tell you about Peru, and yes your perception is right, to have a car is such a luxury in Peru and people feel proud of it, and it is also true they do not care what brand the car is as long as they have a car and can do taxi with it. They are also taxis everywhere in Peru, in fact, I could assume almost anyone that does have a car and does not have a job, think immediately of being a taxi driver.

Answering your last question, does passing judgment also connect with acceptance. I would say yes. In many court cases for example, people judge a lot before the veredict, but once the veredict is given and it is a good veredict in favor of the guilty person, then people change their perceptions and that becomes acceptance, they accept the the fact they were wrong in their judgments.

Personally, I have judgments, but once I know the reasons/facts of why that thing or that person is like that, and as long it is a logical reason or has well grounded facts to be that way, then I accept that thing or that person as it is, so my judgment becomes acceptance.

On the cultural side, having experienced myself two nations with two different cultural, we have tons of judgments about different cultures, but it is when we learn, comprehend or even try to experience the culture, that we understand why certain culture do this and that, and we accepted, again here our judgments became acceptance.

I can go on and on, but answer your last question, yes judgments becomes acceptance as long as there are good reasons or proven facts that make your perception, assumption or stereotype become objective (real).

i completely agree with you YVO. i think they are interconnected. thanks for posting. i appreciate it. it brings a new perspective to society in a world that you and i have both seen.